NZ is delightfully bereft of the tiresome 'security' measures now imposed in the States. One indication of this is that tour groups get to enter the Debating Chambers of Parliament, and stand in the same places that the PM and the MPs stand whilst berating each other at Question Time.
4. RODNEY HIDE (Leader--ACT) to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by her statement that "I sometimes wonder whether I'm a victim of my own success as a popular and competent Prime Minister."; if so, why?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister): No. I no longer have time to wonder. Nor is it something that the member personally will ever have to contemplate.
Rodney Hide: Has she seen the reports that, in allowing John Tamihere to trample all over her, she has gone from being "popular and competent" to being "spineless and impotent"; and what is her response to her appearing to prove exactly what John Tamihere claimed--that she emotionally folds when there is conflict?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK: The only such reports I have seen come from the National Party and ACT, and I am treating them with the usual derision they deserve.
JUDITH COLLINS (National—Clevedon) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What credibility can he bring to the position of Minister for Social Development and Employment, given the allegations surrounding his inappropriate actions in charge of young people?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment): I do not accept the member’s proposition in that question.
Judith Collins: Does he agree that the numerous humiliating parodies of him, like this one, or this one, are indicative of widespread public opinion that he is deceitful, that he is a bully, that he is a pervert, and that he is not a fit person to be in control of children let alone be in control of an entire ministry charged with the well-being of all—
Madam SPEAKER: The member knows better than that. They are personal reflections. I refer her to Standing Order 377.
Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The member cannot seek to hide behind the ill reporting of someone outside this House as a defence for that sort of behaviour. That member, being a lawyer, should well know that. She should be asked to thoroughly apologise, withdraw, and wash her mouth out. So should those in the media who seek to rush to judgment without one fact to back their story on.
Madam SPEAKER: Could the member please rephrase the question.
Judith Collins: Does the Minister agree that the numerous humiliating parodies of him, like this one, or even this one, are indicative that in the public’s opinion he should not be in control of an entire ministry charged with the well-being of all New Zealand’s young people, and will he now do the decent thing and resign that portfolio?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE: No, I think they are indicative of the wealth of wit of cartoonists.
Judith Collins: How can he be a credible Minister for Social Development and Employment when nine students attest that he shoved a tennis ball into a student’s mouth, and he says that is “ridiculous”; when at least three women say he walked in on them getting changed, and he says it is “nonsense” and then apologises; and when a former principal—his former boss—says that he notified Mr Benson-Pope of a written complaint regarding his inappropriate behaviour, and the Minister now says he cannot remember it?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE: Making allegations is one thing, but for every allegation that has been made I have received many supportive comments from students, parents, and teachers supporting my teaching career.
Rodney Hide: Does he think that, as Minister for Social Development and Employment, he has any credibility when in 1998 on a school camp with fourth-form girls he walked though the dorm while they were getting dressed in the morning not once but every morning, and when they complained about it his response was that they had nothing to worry about because he had seen it all before?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE: I certainly do not accept those propositions. I repeat my invitation to anyone who does have concerns to take them immediately to the appropriate authorities.
Judith Collins: How does he reconcile his statement to the House yesterday that: “… I remain convinced that my conduct as a teacher was not inappropriate.” with the statement of his former principal that his actions at the time were “just not appropriate”, and does he accept that telling stories that are at odds with students, principals, and parents severely compromises this Minister’s credibility?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE: I do not accept that statement either, and I am pleased to tell the member that one of the main reasons for that is contained in the document that I will be seeking leave to table when this question is finished.
Rodney Hide: Does the Minister believe that he can carry out his duties when he slapped a young girl pupil on the thigh, when it was against school policy, and he knew that it was—
Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I am beginning to see the pattern of these questions from Rodney Hide. They do not come attached to any evidence whatsoever—
Hon Bill English: That’s not a point of order.
Rt Hon Winston Peters: Yes, it is a point of order and you will shut up while I repeat it.
Madam SPEAKER: Will the member please withdraw that comment.
Rt Hon Winston Peters: Yes, I will. I am entitled to be heard in silence and members are offending the House’s rules.
Madam SPEAKER: Yes, I agree. There is one rule for everyone to be heard in silence on the point of order. The member, however, should not tell another member to shut up in that way.
Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That is not the first time today that I have raised a point of order again to a loud cacophony of sound from National members. It is wrong, and they are not getting away with it in this House as far as I am concerned. My point is that what this member is doing is, not once but on countless occasions, raising an allegation with no future preparedness to table any evidence to back it up. That is wrong, and as a former Speaker’s ruling once said, although he may get away with it once, if he repeats that pattern then someone is entitled to demand that he table the evidence now to back up the assertion, and I am making that demand right now of him. Rather than a whole lot of things that he says he knows, let us see just one of them that we all might know.
Rodney Hide: I thank the Rt Hon. Winston Peters for raising this issue and I make this point. Yes, I have raised questions for this Minister in this House—questions that he has vehemently refuted, said were false, and actually caused me some considerable discomfort. Every one of these questions was demonstrably shown to be true by the very authorities that Helen Clark is saying we should go to. I would like to put my track record for making allegations up against that of the Rt Hon Winston Peters, a man who has never got it right; it is me who has got it right, in respect of that Minister.
Madam SPEAKER: I understand the point of order from both members. I remind all members that this is question time. It is a time to ask questions, not to make allegations. Would the member please rephrase his question as a question to the Minister.
Rodney Hide: What credibility does the Minister think he has as the Minister in charge of social development, the infirm, children, and the elderly, when as a teacher he slapped a young girl on the thigh, which was against the school policy at the time and, indeed, against the law—or will he deny that, as well?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE: I am happy for the New Zealand public to make its own judgment about my actions. I completely refute the ridiculous statement that has just been made by Mr Hide.
Rodney Hide: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I think this Minister’s answers are often quite important to subsequent developments in this House. I could not hear whether the Minister denied the allegation.
Madam SPEAKER: I could hear it. There was not the level of barrage there normally has been, so most members obviously heard it, as well.
Rodney Hide: Point or order—
Madam SPEAKER: It will be in Hansard, as the member knows.
Rodney Hide: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I ask, through you, Madam Speaker, to hear the answer, because you heard the answer and I did not, and I am sorry for that. Did the Minister deny slapping a young woman on the thigh?
Madam SPEAKER: Is this another supplementary question?
Rodney Hide: No, I am asking you, Madam Speaker, because we have to do supplementary questions. I never heard the answer.
Madam SPEAKER: The Minister has given his reply. If we have to interrupt proceedings every time a member did not hear everything, we would not get through question time.
Rodney Hide: Point of order.
Madam SPEAKER: I am sorry. I have ruled on that matter, Mr Hide. If it is a new point of order, you are perfectly entitled to make it, but it had better be a new point of order.
Rodney Hide: Absolutely new.
Madam SPEAKER: I am sorry, what was the last comment you made?
Rodney Hide: Absolutely new.
Madam SPEAKER: Thank you.
Rodney Hide: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. We do not get too many questions in the House. It is not my fault that other people call out and barrack so that I cannot hear. I am entitled as a member of Parliament to ask a question and to have—[Interruption] Well, it might be all right for Mr Peters to interrupt during a point of order when he complains about it, but I am entitled as a member of this Parliament to answer a question and to have a reply. I did not hear it. You said that you did, and that it would be in Hansard later. Well, that is good, but it is very, very hard to ask supplementary questions when one does not actually hear the answer. I was asking you, Madam Speaker, particularly from the perspective of a small party—which, sadly, is ACT—to give us a bit of help and say whether he denied it or whether he did not.
Madam SPEAKER: I thank the member. The member gets considerable help from the Speaker, I must say. I would point out to the House that it is not the Minister’s fault that the reply was heard not by the member but by others. So I say to all members that in future it would be wonderful if we could have question time in silence. I do not expect that, and that is not what is required, but I would ask us to move on now.
Judith Collins: Why did the Minister tell John Campbell of TV3 yesterday that he would be available for interviews, and then did not front up; does he not think that that sort of behaviour compromises his credibility as a Minister?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE: That is not what I told Mr Campbell. I would note that I was subsequently disappointed that Mr Campbell did not have the integrity to say he was taping me. I said I would make a decision about that matter later in the day.
Judith Collins: Did the Minister ever enter a girls’ changing room after the school policy change in 1997?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE: I am not aware of any further allegations in that regard. I am happy to confirm that I do not believe that any of my actions have ever been outside the school policy of the day.